It is my very great pleasure to publish this interview with Marguerite Kenner and Alasdair Stuart, co-owners and publishers of Escape Artists. They happen to be two of my favourite people in SFF-publishing, and I am just thrilled that they were gracious enough to talk to me about their work in the speculative fiction field.
Escape Artists is home to five outstanding speculative
fiction podcasts: Escape
Pod, PseudoPod,
Podcastle, Cast of Wonders,
and the newest addition: CatsCast. These venues publish both original fiction
and reprints, and if you're into spec-fic, these podcasts are some of the best
places to find excellent short fiction, both new and old.
(Photo by Jeremy Carter of Edge Portraits.)
More about Marguerite Kenner:
Marguerite is a California transplant living in the UK. She co-runs Escape Artists, the media production company behind original, award-winning free weekly audio fiction.
A practicing technology lawyer, Marguerite loves doing voice work for podcasts, community organizing, and teaching business skills to creatives.
(Photo: © Edge Portraits
2019)
More about Alasdair Stuart:
Alasdair Stuart is a professional enthusiast, pop culture analyst, writer and voice actor. He co-owns the Escape Artists podcasts and hosts their weekly horror fiction show, PseudoPod. He is an Audioverse Award winner, a multiple Hugo Award and BFA finalist, writes the multiple-award nominated weekly pop culture newsletter, The Full Lid, blogs at www.alasdairstuart.com , streams on Twitch, and tweets @AlasdairStuart.
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Q. What’s your background: where are you from, where are
you now, and what do you do inside and outside the world of speculative
fiction?
Alasdair: I come from the Isle of Man, a small piece
of land off the coast of Ireland and Liverpool. I’ve lived in York, Milton
Keynes, California, Nottingham and now live in Reading. In the world of
spec-fic, I’m the lead host of the horror podcast PseudoPod, occasional
host of the science fiction podcast Escape Pod and co-host of horror
podcast Caring into the Void.
I’m also a game writer and my background there is in TTRPG.
I’ve written for the Doctor Who, Primeval and Star Trek RPGs and
have also written original work for After the War, a game I co-created.
I also write a weekly pop culture newsletter called The
Full Lid and write about The Walking Dead for SciFi Bulletin.
Adjacent to that is my work for Obverse Books on long-form critical
analyses of individual pieces of TV.
Outside the world of speculative fiction I love to cook and
living across the street from an arthouse cinema means I get to indulge my deep
love of movies.
Marguerite: I was born and raised in California, and
this year is the 10th anniversary of my moving to the UK, where we live in
Reading, about 30 minutes outside central London by train. Inside the spec fic
world Alasdair and I co-own and run Escape Artists. We took over from
Serah Eley in 2014. There we focus on the invisible and less glamorous sides of
publishing so that the editorial teams can focus as much of their attention as
possible on reading and producing great audio fiction.
I give lots of presentations and talks about business skills
for creative people; the last one I gave was about Fan Art policies for indie
creators. I’m on lots of different committees for different orgs, I volunteer
at different cons and orgs (like Dream Foundry), and in the past Alasdair and I
co-led the Redcloaks, the Fantasycon volunteers for the British Fantasy
Society.
But that’s the nights and weekends work, because like lots
of creatives we both have full time day jobs. And mine’s as a commercial /
privacy lawyer for a big US software company. I also have a few personal legal
clients, all in the podcast and genre fiction space. *laugh* I always tell
people to find a lawyer who will answer their questions for drinks or cookies,
and that includes me!
Q. What attracted you to the speculative fiction genre as
a child or young adult (or adult)? What were your “gateways” to genre fiction,
and is there a specific genre that appeals to you and has that changed over the
years? Are there some specific books, movies, TV-shows or similar that you feel
were responsible for sucking you into the world of SFF?
Alasdair: One of my earliest memories is watching the
Fourth Doctor get trapped under a collapsing pillar by weird disco-looking
aliens. Another is a deeply terrifying children’s TV movie where two kids from
the present time-slipped to the 19thcentury and helped a third child fight a
horribly burnt fairground ride owning villain. There was a fight in a burning
house where at least one of these kids clearly died and then… they were all on
a merry-go-round smiling and waving over the end credits.
Also The Adventure Game, in which a group of cheery
1980s BBC celebrities were transported to an alien space station and competed
to finish challenges. The first episode featured beloved children’s newsreader
John Craven consigned to the vacuum of space. I mean he was in the van back to
Earth at the end but still, the trauma was real and usually on TV on Saturday
mornings after the Transformers cartoon and before the football.
Anyway those had a big effect on me and they catapulted me
into the Sylvester McCoy era Doctor Who, the first Star Wars
movies and a lot of one-season American TV. Then I found books and I was in
trouble. Then I found comics and I was in Trouble.
For the longest time I convinced myself I was just an SF
fan. Then it occurred to me I’ve hosted a horror podcast for 15 years and that
I’m maybe in fact very fond of horror which was a really nice realization to
have.
L. D. Lewis talks about asking panelists at cons ‘Are you a
fan or WERE you a fan?’ It’s a great question and one I’m aware I look like I’m
on the wrong side of given those answers. So! Recent stuff I’ve really enjoyed
includes Fonda Lee’s stunning Jade City books, Jen Williams’ excellent
fantasy and crime novels, especially Dog Rose Dirt and the most recent
Jordan Peele movie, Nope.
As to how my tastes have changed? I think I’ve made a
conscious choice to be more open. When you’re a guy growing up in the West,
emotion is viewed as weakness. I’m much more willing to explore and interact
with media that elicits emotional response now and that’s a really good thing.
Marguerite: My intro to genre was my Uncle Brian, who
loaned me his Zelazny and Heinlein and Niven books. Like many in our industry I
read Tolkien young. He tried to teach me his love of Pratchett as well, but
that particular variety of British humor just doesn’t work for me (likewise
Gaiman). From there as a teenager I fell headlong into the ‘reclaiming of sword
and sworcery’ era of fantasy - Lackey, Zimmer Bradley, Cherryh etc.
I’d definitely say my introduction to fantasy was driven by
books, but my love of science fiction is all down to Star Trek. I adore
everything about it. I’m a second generation Trekkie, and my mom and I went to
my first fan conventions together when I was a teenger. Star Trek or
other science fiction was ALWAYS on the TV when I was younger. And then I
started to branch out into related fandoms like Doctor Who, reenactment
/ the SCA, comics, anime, cosplay, etc.
I literally can’t remember a time in my life where genre of
some kind was front and center. TTRPGs were a huge part of my life for a long
time, though somehow I’ve never really played D&D -- these days videogames
occupy that spot, especially my beloved Bioware titles. I’ve read very
little what we could call ‘literary fiction’ outside of academia, mostly
because… it bores me. I prefer nonfiction over literary fiction, which is
probably a slightly snobby way of saying I’m very into worldbuilding. I know
it’s a trope that ‘lawyers only like legal stuff’ but yeah, it’s a
self-reinforcing cycle. Give me an examination of the economics of the undead,
or essays on the Star Trek legal systems any day (and yes I own both of
those books).
Q. As co-owners and publishers of Escape Artists,
you are two of the driving forces behind EA’s wonderful podcasts. What drew you
to the world of podcasting, how did you first get involved with Escape
Artists, and can you tell us a bit about the history of Escape Artists?
Alasdair: Serah Eley set up Escape Artists
around the time the podcast was formally born, about 2005. Serah wanted, if I
remember correctly, something fun to listen to in the car on the way to work so
she recorded herself reading short stories. Then, she decided to release them
as a podcast and as the first genre fiction podcast at the time, they really
took off.
Meanwhile in the UK, a very kind friend (Hi Steve! And thank
you!) had burned episodes of I Should Be Writing to dvd for me and I’d listen
to those while I worked. When I got an internet connection in my new house, I
downloaded, via dialup, the first episodes of Escape Pod and PseudoPod
and I was DOOMED. Especially when Mur announced she was stepping down as
co-editor on PseudoPod. I volunteered, they said yes and 15 years later
here we are.
Marguerite: *laugh* You can literally blame PseudoPod
- it was my introduction to podcasting. An episode and a drive-through
coffee was my Friday commute routine forever. From there I got involved with
slush reading at Cast of Wonders, and then because it’s host and editor.
When Alasdair and I took over at Escape Artists, integrating Cast of
Wonders was one of our first goals.
Then Serial happened, or The First Time Someone
Invented Podcasting. Those who had been actively working in the space for a
while rightfully took umbrage, but the success of Serial and then Welcome
to Nighvale raised podcasts in public perception. And most of that indy
work was speculative in nature, specifically dark fiction and horror.
At the time EA had always been run firmly on the speculative
fiction magazine model using podcast convention wisdom - establish a schedule
and stick to it. But podcasts with different models were becoming popular and
starting to meld in the audience’s mind as its own medium. So we made a really
concerted effort to go out and meet and engage with the indy podcasting
community, especially here in the UK. These days EA has one foot firmly in each
space - spec fic mag and podcast.
Q. What is your role in the day to day running of Escape
Artists, and how have your roles evolved since you first started out?
Alasdair: I started out as a co-host, graduated to
host and I’m now lead host at PseudoPod for a fantastic team. We always
try and provide teaching opportunities for our staff and opening up the hosting
spots has really helped do that. I’m really proud of how varied the voices you
hear on PseudoPod are and I’m honored to be part of the team.
Marguerite: Alasdair and I work really well together,
and each of our strengths are in different arenas. He’s very much the ‘face’ of
the company -- promotion, talking about what makes us unique, being actively
involved in the larger community. I’m a ‘devil in the details’ person. I like
an agenda, a schedule, goals and deadlines. As I talked a bit about earlier,
our job is to make anything not directly related to editorial work as painless
and streamlined as possible. Contract questions, filing the taxes, wrangling
tech issues, awards prep - a gigantic grab bag of things most podcast fans
won’t ever see or hear about.
When we first started as co-owners I foolishly thought I
could do that, and edit Cast of Wonders, AND work full time. That lasted
longer than it should have, to be honest. We intentionally scaled up the ‘back
office’ team around the end of 2019 - now we have nearly a dozen people in
roles that aren’t related to producing a weekly podcast episode. Managing that
team has become a bigger part of my role, especially since we try really hard
to find and pass along opportunities for learning new skills, building a CV,
etc.
Q. Both of you host podcast episodes and also narrate stories
for the podcasts. What are some of your favorite episodes that you have hosted
and/or narrated?
Alasdair: I’m still SO fond of "Why I Hate
Cake" for PseudoPod. It was one of the earliest ones I did and I
was late for a dental appointment and I just…kind of forgot to act. So it opens
with this long suffering sigh and goes into horrifying detail about a very good
reason to hate cake and then I went and got a filling. All very synchronous.
I love doing the White Street Society stories by
Grady Hendrix. Grady is a genius and those stories are a chance to basically
have my extrovert and introvert selves on stage at the same time. Also I never,
ever make it through a page without corpsing.
More recently, Episode 821, which was my 15th anniversary in
the job, was "Celestial Shores" by Sarah Day and Tim Pratt and we got
to read it together and it was a TIME. Loved doing that one.
Marguerite: Seconding the "Celestial
Shores" narration. We crammed into our little tiny recording closet
together for that one and it was SO good.
My favorite event that I got to host at Cast of Wonders
was Banned Books Week, a tradition I’m really heartened Katherine Inskip has
continued. Being able to talk about censorship and the so many different ways
it impacts a person and a community is really powerful.
Q. Good narration can really add another dimension to a
story. Do you have any tips for people who want to get started as narrators, or
who might want to become better narrators? What do you look for when choosing
narrators for a story at EA? How does that process work?
Alasdair: I’ll do the first one here, because I know
Marguerite can speak to the back two a lot more specifically.
First tip; find people you want to sound like and
impersonate them. For the last 15 years I have been doing audio cosplay of DJ
Chris Stevens from Northern Exposure. Endlessly enthusiastic and kind,
always open to new experiences and just a big amiable vortex of love for all
culture.
Jack Killian too, the lead character of a show called Midnight
Caller and absolutely the sort of character a tabletop RPG player would roll
up and the DM would go ‘…FINE but you need more flaws too.’ Ex-cop turned DJ in
a show which was basically an excuse for Gary Cole to monologue. His outros are
a big part of why mine are like they are.
Rod Serling too, as well as Valentine Dyall, Edward DeSouza,
Mark Gatiss and Jordan Peele. All of them have done excellent work as that
slightly alien narrator of the story but not in the story.
Second tip; read everything aloud before you record. I never
do this. I should. My dad prints a script off and marks it up too with breath
points, pauses and odd words. Always worth doing.
Last tip. If you want to become a better narrator it plays a
lot like becoming a better artist in general; be brave enough to get out of
your own way. That sounds pat but its act of courage not to be under-estimated.
My proudest moment in narration this decade is in "The Secret of St
Kilda". There’s a flashback sequence where a character is in hospital and
I was praised by a couple of listeners for how emotional the narrator sounded.
It wasn’t acting. It was channeling and using prior experience. Which, now I
see it written down, probably is in fact acting but the point stands.
Marguerite: The short answer is: try it. Podcasts
have NEVER been more prevalent, and the technology more readily available. Yes,
you can record on your phone. Or many public libraries or community centers
have accessible recording equipment or space. Get a group of friends together
and record plays or scripts to other podcasts you like. Technology isn’t the
barrier to participation - it’s time and opportunity. Take advantage of any you
come across, and work with others to make those opportunities available for more
people.
Regarding choosing narrators for stories, that is truly the
secret ingredient of audio storytelling. We can all think of examples where a
wonderful story was diminished by its telling; good audio fiction takes a good
story and makes it better.
One of the things I’m extremely honored to be a part of is
how hard the audio drama community works to center lived experience in
performance. Our editors and producers work hard to find representational
voices for protagonists and characters, bringing the author’s full intention to
life. It’s time consuming and at times heartbreakingly difficult, but it’s also
critical.
Q. Each one of the EA podcasts seems to have a devoted
and hardworking team at the helm. What are your thoughts on how to put together
a good editorial team, and do you have any “management tips” on how to help a
podcast or any other publication get a strong editorial team, and develop a
strong editorial voice?
Alasdair: Work with people you trust who do not feel
the way you do about everything and listen to them when they come to you with
concerns. Even if there’s nothing you can do, creatives are perpetually so
endlessly overlooked or downtrodden that simply saying ‘I hear you’ is more
than most people bother with. When they have a problem that you can solve,
solve it.
When you screw up, say so. You’re going to screw up.
Everyone does. When it’s your fault, own it. Say so out loud. Very little is
more powerful, or more classy, than ‘I’m sorry, here’s what I’m going to do to
fix it.’
Marguerite: Creating a spec fic magazine is a side
hustle for all but a privileged few. Which means it isn’t going to be the only
thing - the only priority - for anyone, no matter how much they love it. If you
can build a team with complementary strengths, like pairing someone who lives
for spreadsheets with someone who can spot a gem in the slush at ten paces,
it’ll minimize the amount of time anyone has to do a thing they dislike.
Redundancy is good, flexibility is critical. And you MUST look outside your
personal circle or echo chamber. Lining up editorial taste is important, yes,
but less critical than having perspective outside your own experience. Without
that, you’re going to turn into a publication that is only being read by the
people who want to be published by it.
Q. What have you learned since you started out at Escape
Artists, and what are the most enjoyable things vs. the hardest things about
your work at EA?
Alasdair: Never have one person in a job. The old
military maxim of ‘two is one, one is none’ exists for a reason. Every show has
multiple editors, multiple producers, hosts and associate editors. They don’t
just do vital work, they stop one person doing all the vital work. That helps
people stay energized and healthy, means bottlenecks are kept to a minimum and
ensures that we’ve always got opportunities for folks to learn new things.
Marguerite: That’s too many projects, put some back.
No, more. *laugh* Every single thing you want to do will take three times as
long as you plan through no one’s fault. You just have to accept and be
flexible with that reality.
The hardest part? Not being able to raise rates, or pay
everyone more. Don’t get me wrong, EA is incredibly fortunate to be entirely
donation supported for coming up on twenty years. And we’re one of the few -
maybe the only? - genre mag that pays absolutely positively everyone, from our
senior editors to our community moderators. That’s just mind-boggling. But we
can only spend on stories what we receive in donations - they’re directly
related. Most podcasts these days receive a big portion of their funding
through either a single crowdfunding campaign per season (which doesn’t work
for how we publish), or through advertising. We’re starting to dip our toe into
ads, and we have another big change we’re trying to roll out next year which we
hope will help incentivise more donations.
The most enjoyable part is when a new author tells you one
of the EA podcasts was their first published story, or is their dream market to
crack. That always makes me so happy.
Q. What advice would you give to writers submitting
stories to your podcasts, and podcasts / publications in general?
Alasdair: Rejection isn’t criticism. We have a lot of
vastly talented writers who bounce off our submission windows not because of the
work they do being bad but because it isn’t a good fit at that moment. I know
that sounds like a truism and I hate those but it really is.
Read the submission window guidelines. For the 98% of you
going ‘Come on, Man!’ right now, I’m sorry. This is for the 1% that don’t. The
1% who think it’s funny to send massively offensive stories we’ll never buy
can’t and won’t be helped. Or published.
Last one. I have NO editorial say whatsoever. None. Never
have had. That’s what our amazing editors are for.
Q. How has your work at EA over the years affected your
view of the world of speculative fiction publishing? Do you feel podcasts are
getting the love and respect they deserve in and outside the speculative
fiction community? What do you see as the main challenges, and the main
positive changes you’ve seen in SFF publishing over the years?
Alasdair: Let’s do these one at a time:
1. It has added depth to the vast ocean of respect I have
for creatives. It’s also shown me that the level of talent in the field is truly
astounding. SF especially is vastly guilty of bemoaning the fact time passes. I
would, and have, argued that we’re living in a new renaissance of science
fiction, and one that constantly betters and improves itself. Often despite the
best efforts of those who’d rather salute the past.
2. No. Honestly. We have a running gag that once every six
months someone will write the ‘Audio dramas are back!’ piece and we reset the
big clock from Pacific Rim. Closer to home we’ve had recent,
contemporary experience of journalists completely failing to understand what
audio producers do, companies who’ve reached out to us four times for the same
collaboration that has yet to appear, and anecdotal data that because we’re a
podcast we’re viewed as more ephemeral than other publications. None of that’s
true. None of it’s fair. But it’s what we deal with.
3. The biggest challenge is that no one’s paid a living wage
unless they’re one of a half dozen authors or editors. That’s wrapped around an
equally large challenge: the belief that you have to ‘pay your dues’. If you’re
creating? If you’re working? If you’re wearing PANTS right now you’re paying
your dues. No one has to earn their spot and yet, at every level, we see SF
creatives expected to do just that and sneered at when they make money doing
it. A friend of mine jokes that Patreon is just a few thousand of us passing
the same ten bucks around and it’s only just a joke.
4. The first positive change is that this stuff is being
talked about. The second is that digital publishing has empowered a vast amount
of people. Look at the sheer amount of fiction out there. Short fiction,
novels, novellas. Entire forms are being brought back into the Sun and it’s
amazing to see. The challenges built into that are threefold; to ensure the
financial and infra-structure barriers to entry (Internet connection, computer)
are as low as possible. Then there’s the challenge of reaching and maintaining
an audience. This is just one manifestation of how vastly uneven the
playing field publishing mega-corporations and indie presses share truly is.
Finally there’s the need to empower your audience. The ongoing pandemic has
understandably convinced a lot of folks that they only need to interact with
fiction they know. I get that absolutely, there is no blame here. I’ve done
that myself. But once you move outside your comfort zone? There’s so much great
stuff out there.
Marguerite: I’d definitely say that becoming a
publisher has given me a broader perspective of the industry as a whole. One of
the advantages in-house lawyers have is that they can see over the silo walls
between departments in a company; that’s how I think of my perspective on genre
these days. For example, one of the projects I’ve been working on for several
years now with SFWA is reworking the qualified markets scheme. I felt it was
really important that group of people wasn’t just made up of only authors, but
would have the perspective of the issues and pressures that publishers have as
well. It would have been all too easy to make standards that small publishers
would have found impossible to meet.
Are podcasts getting love and respect? I think the genre
community does a slightly better job than media in general, probably because
audio drama is such a successful category of podcasts, and they’re almost
always speculative.
Main challenges to the genre publishing? Oof, that changes
almost every week it seems. Right now the ‘fan versus pro’ debate is back,
which I loathe. If I had to summarize it, I’d say we’re facing a regime change,
a generational tipping point in assumptions about things like creation in the
face of capitalism, and building new systems which center inclusion when our
old systems fail us. And those are the positive things I see as well. The fact
that more of us are saying ‘No, it’s not right that X isn’t happening, we’re
going to make X happen’ and bluntly, just not taking no for an answer.
Q. What would you say are some of the most important
issues to think about for people who are running podcasts or zines?
Alasdair: Those financial barriers I just mentioned.
As important? The fact everyone has to be able to play. Inclusivity and
diversity aren’t just ethical obligations, they're going to help you. The more
people feel welcome and feel seen listening to your show, the wider and more
appreciative and more interesting your audience will be.
Genre audio fiction and audio drama is the secret garden of
podcasting. There are thousands of us out here and more every day. An hour or
so ago I read a piece about how podcasting is ‘just radio now’ and nothing has
ever been as big as Serial. If that’s the only thing you ever look for? That’s
on you. And you’re missing so many incredible shows.
Marguerite: Know what you want out of the experience
before you start. That old saw about ‘twice is tradition’ can be an unhealthy
assumption. If you want to do something purely to learn a skill and then put it
down, you can do that! You don’t have to continue past that point. And whatever
you do, under commit and over deliver. Audiences hate being disappointed, but
they’re usually pleased to be surprised.
And for the love of all that’s holy, spend two minutes to
Google search a name before you use it!
Q. Marguerite, I first got to know you through your work
as editor at Cast of Wonders. I love CoW, and I sort of wish there were more
YA-focused publications in general in the SFF community. I know you’re not the
editor there anymore, but what are your thoughts on young adult SFF-fiction and
the role a venue like CoW can play in the speculative fiction community?
Marguerite: I desperately, desperately wish that YA
wasn’t such a novel-centric genre. And yes I think it’s a genre; it’s moved far
past being the marketing label for which it was originally created. But it’s
still primarily centered around novels, which makes publishing YA short fiction
a particular challenge.
You’re also a lawyer, and I was wondering if there are
any specific legal issues that you wish writers, publishers, and others in the
speculative fiction community were more aware of, or had a better understanding
of?
Marguerite: Okay how much time do we have? *laugh!*
Seriously, I could teach an entire course on Basic Business Skills for
Creatives. Probably the most universal recommendation I have is to find an
advocate - an editor, an agent, a lawyer, even a peer or someone senior in your
field that you can talk to when you have questions. Creatives are often taught
that learning about money or how to negotiate a deal is counter-productive, or
shameful, or unnecessary. None of which is true, but does make them targets for
predatory behavior. You wouldn’t buy or sell a house with help; don’t sell a
show or a novel without help either.
Q. Alasdair, you run a great weekly newsletter called The
Full Lid where you write about various aspects of pop culture, and you’ve
also written non-fiction books and essays that deal with speculative fiction
and pop culture. What are your thoughts on the importance of analysis, serious
critique, and in-depth explorations of speculative fiction for the genre?
Alasdair: Thank you! I think serious cultural
analysis is vital and I also think it’s far, far too often mistaken for
nitpicking or snark. It ties into my earlier point about how guys from my
generation are raised to fear emotion. If something elicits an emotional
response, the first logical action for a lot of folks is to attack it. Witness
the ongoing horrific realization that its no longer 1977 every time Star
Wars does something political, a woman in charge of opinions, a voice and a
starship speaks on Discovery or someone thinks it’s a good idea to defend
Providence, Rhode Island’s most famous racist from his own famous racism.
See? Snark. It’s easy.
But it can’t be the only thing we do. When I was coming up,
one of my oldest friends told me something I’ve never forgotten: it is almost
impossible to finish a creative project. Anyone who does deserves at least
basic respect.
Over the years, what I’ve added to that with the realization
that it’s almost impossible for something to be entirely bad. I’ve seen
terrible movies with great special effects. I’ve read books with gorgeous turns
of phrase hidden inside purple prose. An analyst’s job, a critic’s job, is to
not just talk about the bad stuff but raise the good stuff too. To treat the
text with respect and context.
I first came to know you through your work at PseudoPod
and Escape Pod, and I love your narration, and your commentary for
the episodes you host. What are your thoughts on how the field of science
fiction and horror short fiction has changed since you first got involved with
EA?
Alasdair: Thank you! And WOW, that is a question and
a half. I think it’s expanded massively and in the direction it desperately
needed to; into non-English as first language markets. Magazines like khōréō
and Constelación do incredible work and continue to prove that this
weird trio of genres don’t end when Europe and America do. There are some
amazing voices out there, and I’m especially excited to see folks like Sasha
Stronach, Cassie Hart and the Fiyah team continue to do amazing work.
Q. You are both based in the UK. How do you feel about
the sometimes rather North America-centric focus in speculative fiction when it
comes to SFF awards, cons, publishing, etc?
Alasdair: I think it’s slowly killing the field or at
the absolute least seriously damaging it across multiple axes. Worldcon being
outside the US twice a decade at most. A measurable percentage of assistant
editors in genre fiction quitting on one day because the wages and demands were
equally ridiculous. The belief, although this is being challenged at last, that
if you’re not in New York or London it’s not real publishing. The enraging
decision from some conventions to downsize their online component. The times
have changed and they aren’t going back despite a lot of genre’s best efforts
to do the same.
This is always a hard time of year to have this conversation
due to award season which takes all that pressure and doubles it. But it’s a
conversation, hell it’s a fleet of conversations, we’re decades past due on and
superficially there’s very little you can do other than read diversely, support
online events, vote for what you love and lift up as many creators as you can.
This is a little silly but there’s a line in The Day
After Tomorrow that always haunts me. It’s the last communication from Sir
Ian Holm’s character. He just says ‘Save as many you can.’. I think ‘help as
many as you can.’ Is a pretty good, less fatalistic variant on that and it’s
what the parts of the field that truly sing and will survive all this, do.
Marguerite: ‘Rather’ nothing, it absolutely is, and
for the same reasons most things are english speaking western hegemony centric.
Which means changing those assumptions involves tackling all the systemic
barriers that have been staunchly defended for centuries now. But I don’t think
that’s the core of the issue, those are just facts. What’s core -- what we
COULD change -- is the VALUE we place on those institutions, those
publications, those awards. They’re prestigious because we collectively decide
they are, even when we’re presented with alternatives. But that goes back to
that mentality, that cycle of abuse that says ‘I paid my dues, I earned this,
it’s my turn.’ Which is hard to break individually, let alone systemically. But
I have hope, I see the signs its starting to happen.
Q. For people out there who might be thinking about
getting involved with a podcast or a zine in any capacity, what would you say
to them? Any cautionary tales? Any tips or advice
Alasdair: Absolutely do it. It will change your life.
There are some caveats. Never, ever, EVER pay to play. We’re
entirely donation funded, most other shows I know run off crowdfunders or are
in one of the five corporate walled gardens that dominate the field. If you
want to donate to a show, do it. If you’re being asked to pay an entry fee,
you’re being scammed.
Manage your expectations and your time. Writing is very
hard. The rest of the process is harder. Get a team you like and trust. Set
boundaries and have regular meetings.
Marguerite: Two points here. First, I’m not a writer,
but every writer I’ve ever talked to who was also a first reader / slusher /
associate editor said that the experience was helpful.
Second, whenever I’m evaluating whether to do a project or
presented with an opportunity, I ask myself seven questions. If I can’t answer
the majority of them with yes, I walk away:
1. Is this a community or organization I want to serve? I.e.
do I care?
2. Does this organization’s values align with my own? Is
there proof of that?
3. Will this project accomplish a goal that is important to
me? Not just ‘does this need to be done’, but do I personally care about this
outcome?
4. Is the commitment of my time, talent or treasure
something I’m willing and comfortably able to donate?
5. Are these skills I am seeking an opportunity to learn and
develop? If you’ve done something for years and it’s become an expectation you
no longer find pleasurable, say no! Or offer a final transitional period.
6. Do I trust my potential teammates? If the people involved
with the project aren’t ones you’d share a meal with, think twice about
collaboration.
7. Will I be provided with / have access to the resources
and support I need to succeed? Or are you being brought in to make a token
effort to appease, to fill a seat or tick a box?
Q. I know both of you do all sorts of work in the
SFF-world besides your work at Escape Artists. What are some of your own
favourite projects outside of EA? Do you have any new things coming up?
Alasdair: I love writing The Full Lid every
week. It’s incredibly useful as writing practice and as a means of getting
stuff out of my head. It’s also just really fun to work with Marguerite on it.
She’s an amazing editor and we’ve got very good at thinking like each other.
She writes me better than I do and I have an editorial instinct now that sounds
a lot like her.
I’m also really enjoying working with Brock Wilbur and Will
Biby hosting Caring into the Void. CiTV is a great podcast where the two hosts
tell each other a horrific true story and then find something positive in it.
I’m work cover over there for Meghan, the fantastic regular host, and it’s
always a blast to record.
Also, I act now! My work on The Magnus Archives as
Peter Lukas kind of kicked off a voice acting career, and I won an award for
it. Some of my recent audio dramas were the SF disaster show Roguemaker,
Celtic horror The Secret of St Kilda, and an upcoming legal superhero
show, Supersuits, where I’m working with Marguerite. IT IS SO WEIRD. I
love it tremendously.
Oh! I also co-created an excellent memetic tabletop horror
RPG called After The War. It’s set on the last planet standing after a
catastrophic war with a piece of sentient alien music and discusses themes of
community building, individualism, horror and PTSD and also how amazing being
somewhere new is. I co-created it with Jason Pitre of Genesis of Legend and
other amazing creators like John Adamus and Jacqueline Bryk and it’s a lovely
game. I get to go back there soon too which will be fun.
Last thing promise! I do regular non-fiction work for Obverse
Books. Paul and the team over there do my favorite thing; non-fic deep
dives and I’ve had the honour of doing two. One on the Doctor Who Anniversary
Special, "Day of the Doctor", and one on the Star Trek: Discovery episode,
"Through the Valley of Shadows". Loved doing them both, and I’m
working on their next new Doctor Who Project too which will be fun.
Marguerite: Like Alasdair I love getting to do more
voice acting, though I prefer smaller supporting roles and helping out behind
the scenes.
Most of the projects I’m working on right now are behind the
scenes at EA. Some of them have been reactive or defensive, but a couple are
things we’ve wanted to do for years with EA finally coming to fruition. Keeping
a company with five active shows and over 100 people focused, supported and
happy isn’t a new project, but it’s my best!
Huge thanks from the bottom of my heart to Marguerite and
Alasdair for doing this interview!
- More
about Marguerite Kenner: https://margueritekenner.com/about-me/
- More
about Alasdair Stuart: https://alasdairstuart.com/
- More
about Escape Artists Inc.: https://escapeartists.net/
About Behind the Zines:
In this interview series, I talk to people working behind
the scenes at various speculative fiction publications. My goal is to
highlight the work that goes into keeping these publications alive, and to
share insights from the people doing that work. Each interview is available
exclusively on my Patreon for one week, and is then posted here at Maria's
Reading.
If you want to support my work, check out my Patreon or Ko-Fi.
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